Maxwell's House of Music
In this episode, Nathan and Richard sit down with the owner of Maxwell's House of Music, a brick and mortar music store located in Jeffersonville, Indiana. Mark is an industry vet with valuable insights. He shared his views on the importance of customer service and how his store is set up to give everyone a space they can feel comfortable in. He also talks about is 300-400 student lesson program and the impact it makes on his business. Mark talks about his unique attack/view towards the online market and what works for his business. This is one you can’t miss!
Check out his store at https://www.maxwellshouseofmusic.com/
Full Transcript:
N: Alright, hey! We’re going to do a great episode today. This is going to be, this is a special occasion. It is a special occasion, obviously, Richard, because this is not only our first live show, but it is our first guest…
R: Yes.
N: ...that we have ever had on here. So, we actually don’t know how this is going to go.
R: It is going to go great.
M: It is all uphill from now! What are you talking about? It is straight up hill from now!
R: Hey, we’ve talked over the last couple of weeks, maybe 3, 4 weeks, about guests and getting guests in, and one thing we both agree on, not because he is in the room, but one thing that we agreed on is Mark would probably be one of the best guests for retail.
N: Yes.
R: Somebody that we can bring in that has a wealth of knowledge, that is good explaining things. He has a ton of stuff to talk about, and we’re going to bring some of, not all, some of his ideas out, and we can honestly sit here all day and talk to him, so we’re super excited. So, what I’m going to do is introduce Mark Maxwell. Thank you for being here.
M: Oh, yeah. Thank you.
R: I am going to do something a little different. I am going to try to do something a little different, and that is kind of take a backseat. You work with Mark a lot.
N: We’ll see how it all works out.
(Nate and Mark laugh)
R: Yeah, we’ll see how that works out. I purposely took my questions and threw them away to try to stay out. I unfortunately have a lot of words, but you guys have a great relationship, and I think it is very, very important that we sit back. I’m going to try to concentrate on you guys. Try to keep Mark in line, but we have a lot of questions. Mark has a lot of history, and what we’re, I explained this to a manufacturer the other day is “Yes, we sell guitars but the goal is to be an educator. We want to educate our dealers and everybody involved”. We have an educator right here, and what we want to do is we want to focus on some of the techniques and some of the things that he has learned over several years, and we will dive into that, on how we can make music store’s days easier, better and give them a ton of ideas that will help their business and hopefully let them enjoy the music industry. So, I’m going to sit back a little bit. I’ll throw in a few questions.
N: Yeah, absolutely.
R: We have a couple questions from people here, an audience that we have, and we’ll ask a couple of those, but for the most part I’m going to take a back seat, and again, thanks Mark.
M: Oh yeah, you’re welcome. I appreciate you guys.
N: Yeah, this is a great opportunity because Mark has been a great client and friend. We’ve had lots of conversations. Not only that, met a lot of people. Mark has been a huge cheerleader for MIRC. I wonder how many referrals that we have business that we have.
R: We actually get, do better… See, I’m already jumping in.
N: That is fine.
R: We actually do more business by his referrals than he actually buys.
M: Yeah, probably so. You’re welcome.
(Richard laughs)
R: I’m just kidding.
N: Yeah, but Mark has been awesome over the years. When I came back here, you guys were already buying, so as far as I’m concerned, you’ve been back here with MIRC for over 7 years.
M: Mhm.
N: I think over 8 years, and I’m telling you what, it has been a great ride. We have always referred back to Maxwell’s House of Music, previously Mom’s, as a great example. You’ve come up in tons of business meetings and sales meetings about, just about ideas that have come up, things that you’re doing. Especially as we dive into, you talked about the rebranding of your business, that has come up. We have talked a lot about that. Every time you have always been a part of our events, like right now. You always come in town for NAMM. You send people here to the workshops. You’ve invested a ton of your time and effort and resources into MIRC, and therefore we have always wanted to invest our time and effort and resources back into you as well.
M: Oh yeah, you guys have been more than supportive. It’s interesting, too, because you guys have really… it has been fun to watch how you guys have grown. This is weird, because on the front side of MIRC and me thinking about even looking at this thing at all, I didn’t quite get it. You know what I’m saying? Then, once I did, I told everybody about it. I really did. I told music stores all around me. When they were struggling, I would say, “Hey, why don’t you just check out what they do? Drive down there and just walk through one time and you’ll go ‘Oh, wow.’” and so, I think you guys are great. I really do.
R: Thank you. We really appreciate that.
M: I don’t like either one of you....
(Nate laughs)
R: We understand that.
(Nate and Richard laugh)
M: ...but you have a great enough product that I don’t have to like you.
N: Yeah, you’re forced to get along.
R: If you’re making money, that is good enough.
M: It is, yes.
N: So, obviously, we’ve enjoyed you over the years.
M: Thanks.
N: So, when we’ve thought about who could we have, like Richard said, who could we have our first guest, we were like, “Oh, we have got to have Mark. Mark would be perfect. '' So, even just the few times that we have talked even just about business, we felt like, “Hey, Mark has probably got a lot to contribute to other businesses”.
R: Yes.
N: You’ve been in business for what, 34 years now?
M: Mhm.
N: 34 years, and you’ve worked for multiple stores. You’ve branched out from your family business. You’ve started your own, so we think you have a lot to contribute to what is going on out there.
M: Yeah, my dad has always... My dad started as a drummer.
R: Smart guy.
M: Yeah.
(Mark laughs)
M: I know you love that.
N: Why didn’t you want to be a musician?
(Nate laughs)
M: Oh, thank you very much. You are so horrible. So, my dad started as a drummer in Louisville and went out on the Dick Clark Caravan of Stars with his band and they were touring everywhere, and you know, had three kids at home and said, “I have 3 kids at home. I have got to do something else”. So, we came back and started working at music stores in Louisville. He started a pretty big store in southern Indiana with another gentleman, then left that and started Mom’s Music more than 35 years ago. So, most of the stuff I know or learned is usually because of my Dad, you know? He was… there was this guy, I don’t know if it was just in Louisville, but there was this TV commercial and they called him Mad Max; “I’d give it away, but my wife won’t let me!”, that was his key phrase. That was my dad, because my dad, I don’t think he really cared much about making money. I think he wanted to make sure that music kept going, and that was his whole thing. It was probably the reason that Mom’s Music survives in Louisville and that Maxwell’s House of Music is in Jeffersonville, and literally most of the stores are gone. Most of them are gone, just because it was… I’m telling you, in anything you do, if it is about who walks in your door or calls you on the phone, if you make it about them, you don’t have to ever make it about you. You make it about them, they will always make it about you. You care about the musician, the kid that walks in the door, whatever it be. That is all you got to do is give, give, give, give, give, and I’m telling you, they are going to tell everybody. You’re going to get all of the business in the world because of it. I think that we think it is about us being in this industry, me, Mark Maxwell, and it is just not. It is about whoever walks in that door or calls me on that phone. I want to help them get to their dream, whether it is learn to play an instrument, whether it is to be in a band, whatever that they decide they want to do and the reason that they are calling me, and I think that came from my dad. He was always so into the musicians of the community, of the town.
N: Yeah.
M: It worked well. So, he is still in business and I am still in business.
N: You’ve obviously been in this business long enough and seen how things have changed.
M: Oh, yeah.
N: Are you saying that that is something that is kind of been lost from the music store industry?
M: Well, I think that we have made it this thing that it is not. I do believe it is not. It is about that guy playing guitar, or that guy playing drums, or that girl playing keys or singing. It is about musicians making music and the tools they need to do so. If you create that relationship of really just caring about what they want to do, it will carry you for life; lifelong friends, lifelong customers. So, I think that is where people have lost it. I think they think it is about selling this, and that, I gotta be honest with you, I want to sell you this. I’ll be glad to sell you this if you want to support this or whatever that widget they used to call it is, but I like at it as more of as this relationship has got to be a relationship.
R: Yes.
M: It is, you know, for all the things, you care about those people. You invest in those people. You find out “Is this just something they want to do sitting by the campfire?”, “Is this something they want to go to college and become?”, a teacher or whatever it is, and then you have got to help those people. If we will get back to that… well, now I can’t tell…
N: And there are some that are doing that.
M: Are you kidding me? Heck yeah, there are! I mean, they are obviously surviving well because of it, you know, or barely surviving but they are still okay with the fact that they know they are doing their part. There is nothing like a kid who is now a grown up man that comes into my store and goes, “Man, you did this. You gave me advice. '' I mean, a kid called me from the Tonight Show and said, “Hey, I just want to say thanks. My band is playing on Tonight. I hope you watch it”.
R: Wow. Wow.
N: That is killer.
M: I’m like “What a call”, you know? It is just because I said, “Dude, you can do this”. Was he great at what he does? No, I just said to be determined. He only had to learn these 12 songs to play in this band, so go learn those 12 songs the best you can, go do the audition, keep your head up, have a lot of fun, and he did and got the gig, went on tour, and called me. The first week he was on tour with Kid Rock, you know?
R: Wow, that is crazy.
M: So, this band did well and did its thing. Then, that Tonight Show call was just really special to me. I just thought, “Wow, that is ridiculous”, you know?
N: A lot of what you are saying is, man, it is an investment. It is a long investment in… you just talked about somebody who was young, now they are a grown adult calling and saying “Thank you”...
M: Absolutely.
N: ...where you know you are right. People go, “Hey, I’ve got to sell a bunch of these”. So, just real quickly, how can we help people connect the dots from, “Yes, I’ve got to sell this product, but I’ve also got to invest in people’s lives too”. Maybe a lot of times there can be a disconnect, because we realize life sets in. People have bills to pay, a lot of employees to pay, people have employees to fire that aren’t doing a good job, but somehow they are supposed to all come back around and go, “Hey, I invest in these people and invest in their lives. I want to make relationships”.
M: I think it’s important, one, if you’re a store owner that you surround yourself into the store with people you like. Right? That you think are going to carry on the vision of whatever you’re setting your vision as.
N: Have you found that hard to do?
R: No, he’s had a hard time finding employees that like him.
(Nate laughs)
M: I think that is probably best said right there. No, I haven’t. I learned to do this years ago, I think. I’ve had a few things that I just realized, I, uh, I hired somebody to work for me that wasn’t what I thought they were.
N: Yeah.
M: I’m pretty frank about this stuff, but I like good, nice people and if I have to spend 8 hours in a building with somebody, I want to like them.
R: Sure.
M: I want to know… I really do, I want to like them, and I want them to see the vision, and I want them to understand it and push for it. So, that’s my first thing, but then the second thing is that when the door opens and there’s somebody that walks into the door, my view of every person is, “I have no idea what kind of day she had today. I have no idea what this guy is going through”. This guy may have lost his house this week. His kid is sick. He is sick. His wife just died. Whatever, I think about people as humans. I love Jesus, so I think about it as if Jesus was standing there and that is me, I think, “Would He want to love on this person?” So, that has been my whole kind of step, so a person walks in the door and I’m thinking, “That guy has had a rough day. I just know it, his job sucks”. This is his moment to walk in this door, whether he’s taking a lesson or whether he’s just coming to peruse the place. They think at first, when they first meet me, that I’m a salesman because I’ll ask them questions. I’ll qualify them as a human, and I’ll say, “Hey, so you play?” and they’ll say, “No, but I want to”, so, “Tell me your dream. Do you want to sit by a campfire? Do you want to play for your girlfriend? Do you want to play in a band? You want to go on tour? Tell me what it is you dream about, and we’ll talk about how we get you there”. So, eventually, I get to that conversation. I just think who is in front of you is what matters right there, but then the secondary thing is that person that calls. So, if a phone calls in the middle of it, I’ll say, “Hey, listen. I’m with somebody, but I promise I’ll call you back”, and boom, get their number and soon as I have that moment, I’ll call that person back and I’ll say, “Hey” because they are important to me too. My dad always said to me that you don’t get a job from somebody by calling them on the phone, you go to their place of business and you shake their hand. So, my first person, anybody that comes in the store is who is going to get my time.
N: Yes.
R: Yes, I agree.
M: Again, there is people that are going to latch on and they are going to spin. I know there is people out there, naysayers, who say, “These people just waste my time”, and I’m like, “Yeah, man, but they won’t so much if you’ll really kind of like help focus them in a direction”. Now, if they… and I think that’s what I’ve learned to do is just care. I like people, I want them to do well in their life, and I’ll give them all the advice they want or they can tell me to go to Hell.
N: Yeah, well, I’m telling you, I’ve been walking in music stores for a long time and I’ll tell you, back when the guitar was extremely popular, you know, there is a lot of other music that has come along, but man, it was almost like the owners had this attitude like, “Hey, thanks for coming into my store. You’re here for me. You’re here to come into this” and it was never about this. I’ve never felt like people wanted to serve the customers, found out what your dreamers are, what do you wanna do? Then, all of the sudden Kurt Cobain comes along and pounds out three chords and two guitar solos and people go, “Aw, the guitar died”. You almost kind of wonder, well, maybe that atmosphere didn’t die. Maybe it was going to die anyways. It just needed a catalyst to kind of push it forward because what you’re talking about right now, in my opinion, I have not seen a lot of.
M: Absolutely.
R: It is a lost art.
N: It is a lost art that is not in a lot of music stores that I’ve seen. I’m not discrediting all the people out there that run great music stores. That’s awesome.
M: Hey, but I get my heart broken, too. I get my heart broken because I’ve spent a lot of time with somebody and advice them a lot, and I think I’m doing the best job. Then, they walk in the door and open their case and go, “Man, check this out”.
N: Yeah, I bought this on Amazon!
M: I had it right there on my wall, and I look at them and go… and I do, I’ll say to them, “Hey, you know something. I have spent a lot of time with you. I have because I care about you and I want you to do well, but man, I would love to have your support of your music business too, because if you don’t support me, I’m not here to invest in you”. So, you can’t just let it go. You do have to say, “Hey, I’m going to care about you and I hope you do the same for me. The way I can do it is I can invest in you and help you figure out your dream and how you get there. At the same time, you can help me if you do buy a guitar, you give me first shot or something, you know, even if I don’t have it”. There is lots of times I’ll say, “I just don’t do this product. I can’t get it for you, so I understand you have this desire for it. Go get it. Be happy about that”. I have lots of people who come to me with that. They want to buy it from me, and they’ll pay even more money. I’ve have customers who’ll say, “Look, I know it is $300 online. I’ll give you $350. Why don’t you just buy it online, bring it to your store. I want to give you the money”. Swear to you, I have people. I have a customer I’m thinking of right now. He;s bought 2 or 3 things to me that I don’t even carry the line. Literally I had to buy it from musicians friend and bring it in my store and he paid me $50 more to do it.
N: Really?
R: Wow. Wow.
M: Because he would not buy it from anybody else.
R: Good for him.
M: So, that is the kind of human I want. I want that kind of human being to hang out with me. I want him to be my friend because I think he knows that I need to be taken care of too. I have a music store that propels your dream, you know? It does. So, I want everybody to be happy and do their thing.
N: I can only imagine sitting there and going… and somebody walks in and they open that case like, “Hey, look what I just bought” while it’s hanging on the wall. Man, I would love to get that whole scenario on video because you’re probably like, “What?”. That was a bad idea to bring this in.
(Nate and Mark laugh)
M: Now, there was one guy who… I was in a ripe mood, and I just looked at him and said, “Are you kidding me?”. I said, “Are you kidding me right now?”
N: There were probably crickets.
M: Oh yeah, he was just sitting there and looked at me. Like, you bought that from somebody else because you saved $30? I mean, seriously, how much time have I spent with you? I showed you that product in the first place. I showed somebody a product that had never seen the product before and a few months later he came in to ask a specific question that I knew he wouldn’t have been able to ask unless he had one.
R: Unless he had it, yeah.
M: And I just said…
R: You probably spent $50 the labor.
M: Yeah, I did. I spent a lot of time with the guy, but you know something? He either walked away from the situation after I said “Really? I mean, really, is this where we’re at?” because yeah, that $30 would have helped me through the situation, sure it would have. I’m a music store. I have to sell things. I have… people have to sign up for lessons. I think people have to think about what they’re doing. I mean, I find myself online. Everybody does it. It is too easy. You sit in your underwear at home and dream and buy it and know tomorrow it is going to be at your house. I’m not saying there is… it is a different world, but also I don’t piss and moan about it. So, I’m not this guy who is going in and talking about it all the time. I just keep going forward and I look at each person and go, “Man, this kid wants to be a guitar player. I want to make him a great guitar player. He wants to learn to be a studio guy? I want to get the right guy in his life to mentor him through his life” and if indeed you do that, I believe it pays off. I do. I’m not a very good businessman, I'm going to be honest with you. I’m just not a very good businessman.
N: You’re a people person!
M: I am a people person, so I have another guy who is a businessman who goes, “We probably ought to buy this because of this”. He looks at numbers and stuff, and my wife is like, “You don’t even know what your business does...
(Nate and Richard laugh)
M: ...You have no idea what your business does!” and I go, “You know…”
R: You married up.
M: I did. Are you kidding me? I’m writing that song right now, it is called “I Married Up”, but I got to tell you…
N: She’s writing one saying “I Married Down”.
(Nate and Richard continue to laugh)
M: There is no doubt! No, but she’ll say that to me all the time, “I can’t believe you don’t even know what you have. How much money do you have in the bank right now, Mark?” and I go, “I have no idea, honey” and she goes, “Well, how much does this…” and I go, “I have no idea”. I’ve been so, like, I believe that I’m doing it the right way that I don’t really think about it, but I know that he is and she is. So, I just, you know… I don’t even want to hear it. Don’t tell me. Just tell me if I’m not doing well enough, if I need to kick it into gear a little bit. Tell me that so I’ll kick it into gear. So, my wife will look at me and go, “Kick it into gear!” every once in a while.
(Nate and Richard laugh)
M: So, she only comes in the store once a week. She can’t even stand being there because… you know, but she helps in the office…
R: That is all she says is kick it into gear?
M: She just yells, “It’s time to do your job!” and so, I don’t know.
N: But you intrust your employees?
M: Oh, you kidding me? I trust them 100%.
N: You’re here today because you trust them.
M: I do. Are you kidding me? Look, what could they do? One is I like them. I kind of understand them. I know I can, I feel I can trust them, that’s why I hired them in the first place. They want to do good. I mean, they sent me pictures today, I mean last night. I was gone all day yesterday from the store and one day, I had this vision outside that I wanted to do like when you walk up to our store, it’s a really interesting outside vision that we did. You can go online to Maxwell’s House of Music and just take a look at our outside.
R: Our first commercial!
N: Yup!
(Richard laughs)
M: So, you can do that and you can look at it, and you can see that there is some pianos in these pictures. We took those old pianos, these grand pianos, and opened them up and literally put a bed of flowers in them, and had them outside and over the last three years they have…
N: Fallen apart.
M: Oh my gosh. We painted them, we’ve done everything to try to keep them to survive, but they didn’t survive. So, my guys knowing that it would mean a lot to me because I had said, “Do you know what I want to do? I want to take those old drums in the back...” I had some old drum sets, just pieces and parts, not even full drum sets, “...cut the head out of the top and then put dirt down in them with the head on the bottom, poke a few holes so the water can seep through, and be creative and put some flowers in it. That’d be a really cool way to walk up to the store”. I literally, last night, I get 3 pictures in and it’s those 3 drum sets outside, set up with all the flowers and everything loaded in it. It was like what a cool thing. Those guys could have sat on their, you know, and done nothing, but they thought, “This is something that is a neat vision”. I think they understand where I’m going and to be honest with you, I don’t think I’d have to show back up there again. I really don’t. I could leave right now and those guys would care enough and care about the people that walk in the door.
N: Well, you’ve invested in them. You’ve sent, I mean, how many employees have you sent here to the workshop that we have?
M: Multiple employees. I want them to go. Here is the thing, self education… this podcast is the best thing any music store person could do, ever. There is not anything better. NAMM has some stuff on their site that is really good, too, but to be honest with you, this… because you can get in your car, you open up your podcasts, and you drive down the road and you can hear information about why someone is doing really well or things that you can do that maybe you’re not thinking about. My dad also said... I know there is negativity in what we’re doing because it is not as profitable as it used to be 30 years ago. So, it gets harder to do. I’m not saying it, but my dad said this: “If you’re not having fun, go do something else”. I grew up with that whole thing of, “If you’re not having a good time, Mark, you need to go find something else that you want to do”. I enjoy it. I would love for it to be more profitable. I’m trying to find ways to do so, but there is nothing in this world… I went yesterday and met with some publishers in Nashville because I like to write songs, and what I found out about publishers is that 20 years ago, a publisher would take song, and their only role was to find songs and to pitch them to artists. Well, that has become harder, so now a publisher is developing the artist, is dealing with their merch, they’re doing all of this stuff that other entities used to do, but they have to. So, when you walk into Maxwell’s House of Music, you will see there is gear for sale. There are private lessons that we have. You can learn just about anything at our store. There is one other, it is a fitness room. It is called Maxwell’s House of Fitness. We have a church that rents out our stage room on Sunday mornings. I’m trying to do anything I can just to keep everything to where it used to be 20 years ago. Is it going to do any good just to complain about it? I mean, no. So, let’s just stop complaining. Let’s get a little positive about this and realize it is not about us. If you think it is about you, stop doing it.
N: You know, it’s funny. I want to point out that in the notes that you gave us about all of your accomplishments and everything, you put “veracious songwriter”, so…
M: I did not put that. I didn’t write that.
N: You didn’t write this?
M: I didn’t write any of that!
R: We had to look up “veracious”.
N: Yeah, we had to look it up.
M: Yeah, yeah. Well, I know words.
N: Are you sure? The next one just says “I am awesome”. That is all it says.
(Nate laughs)
M: It does not say that!
R: That was the last bullet point on the top half.
M: It does not say that, and I didn’t write any… I didn’t write any of my accomplishments. I looked to Jen, who works in the office. I go, she’s like a visionary person, too, and I go, “Hey, MIRC wants to know if I’ve done something good in my life. Throw down some crap”.
(Nate and Richard laugh)
R: “Don’t ask my mom and dad”.
M: No, don’t ask my mom and dad!
N: Right there, “veracious songwriter”.
(Nate and Richard continue to laugh)
M: Oh my gosh.
N: Does that mean vigorous or he writes a lot?
R: Yeah, we looked it up.
M: We’ll talk about it later.
R: Yeah.
N: Okay. Alright, now. Hey, going back to, obviously you brought up NAMM… you are one of the Top 100 Dealers.
M: Yes.
N: So, I actually got online to see if you were towards the top, like two or three...
(Mark laughs)
M: They don’t do that!
N: ...but they put them in alphabetical order, so you were actually in the middle of the list.
M: They do, yeah. We’re up for an award for something this year…
N: What are you up for?
M: …I’m not sure what it is, and I won’t go there for it. I don’t ever go to… I’m not much on awards, you know what I’m saying? Jen, who works in our store, is all about awards.
N: Will she be there?
M: It’s because she thinks people on the outside perceive it as something that’s great.
N: Some do.
M: They do, and so I think a mom and dad look at it and go, “One of the Top 100 Music Stores in the world? Maybe we ought to shop there” so, I get the perception of what that is, so it is nice to be named that. We’ve been named it 3 years in a row, Top 100 Music Stores, but I think that’s because we’re trying.
N: No, absolutely and that was actually some of the questions that I wanted to get into.
M: Go ahead.
N: Like I wanted to know, like first of all, the Top Dealer of the Year award is Friday night.
M: I will never go. I’m not into it. I just won’t do it.
N: Do you think you’re going to win, though?
M: Of course we’re going to win! No, I don’t think we’re going to win. Come on! No, no, no, no, no!
(Nate and Richard laugh)
M: We’re not, I don’t think… I think you have to be like a…. We’re not a big dealer. I mean, one, we have a 12,500 square foot…
N: You’re a big deal, though.
(Nate laughs)
M: ...and we’re a big deal in our town. We are a big deal in our town, but I’ve never really tried to be a big deal with the whole NAMM thing. I just serve. My card from last year, I just found one in my car. Each year, we change our names on our card. What are we? I listed, literally, I was “servant”. So, it said Mark Maxwell… the year before on my card, it was something that sounded like I was a big deal.
N: This year it is “voracious songwriter”, right?
R: Yeah!
M: I think it’s going to be, but each year…
(Nate and Richard laugh)
M: ...and so, last year, I was like, “What am I doing in this? I’m serving people” and so, I said “Mark Maxwell - Servant”. Yeah, I own the store and my name is on the store and people think it is this thing but I am just here to serve. I really am.
N: But it is a big deal. If you won that award there Friday night, it would be a big deal.
M: One, it’s not going to happen because I just don’t do enough numbers. I’m not a big deal. I don’t sell a ton. We do alright, but I’m just saying I don’t look at myself like a… I don’t know. I don’t even care about selling stuff sometimes.I do want to show people cool stuff that will help them do their job, so if I sell something it’s usually because I go, “Man, check out this guitar because it has a totally unique sound than anything you have in your thing. This amp, it is a very interesting new amplifier”. So, I like to show off gear because gear gets you where you’re going to go and so I love gear. Man, I love… your warehouse out here. If somebody doesn’t walk through this thing… what a fun walk. It’s like you don’t want to leave. I hate it!
N: There is our second commercial.
R: Yeah.
M: No, but it’s true. I came here the first time and I just went, “I am home”. You know, the only thing you didn’t have that I have in my store? You didn’t have enough seats to sit in.
N: You know, that is true. We don’t have a whole lot of seats. I think we have 2.
M: Yeah, I think you do….
R: And you’re sitting in one.
(Nate and Richard laugh)
M: ...but your warehouse is awesome and it was just really fun.
N: Well, hold on a minute. Coming back to the NAMM stuff…
M: Go back to NAMM, okay.
N: The NAMM stuff. We love tangents, but the NAMM stuff. I’m going to look at some of these things and they’re going to determine to top dealer…
(Mark laughs)
N: ...and this is some of the stuff that, my point here is, this is stuff that you do well.
M: Okay, go ahead. Just jump in.
N: The first one was best store turnaround. I wasn’t really actually sure what that meant.
M: That you were having hard times but all of a sudden you said, “I'm going to change my mind”. You can change anything like that.
(Mark snaps)
M: That quickly, you can change anything in your life. So, if that, if you are having a rough time with your music store, all you have to be is active and your attitude has to change. Your attitude is everything walking into it, but literally, if you took the next week and you called every person you’ve ever done business with on the phone… I do this all the time. I’ll call somebody and just go, “Hey, how are you doing?”
N: Like, who is this?
(Nate laughs)
M: I know, I’ll say, “This is Mark Maxwell from Maxwell’s House of Music”. “Yeah?” “How are you doing?” “I’m good” “What are you up to now?” “Uh, nothing” “Are you still playing? I mean, what is your band doing?”. Like, I care about that and people think it is some kind of weird thing, but I guarantee within 30 days, there is no other music store in the town that ever called them. Guitar Center is not calling them on the phone. So, they’re not calling them on the phone. I called a guy and said, “Tell me, what’s going on? Are you still playing? Are you playing with anybody? Do you want to play with somebody?” and like, within 30 days, everytime you call somebody, they’ll be in your store because you’re the only son of a gun who cares for them.
R: Because you care for them.
M: I do, and so, I’m like “Hey, man, are you still playing?” “No, man, I’m in bad health and I’ve got this going on” and so, the best turnaround, all you have to do to turn your store around is to care, is to call a person on the phone and say, “I know this is weird. You think it’s strange, but I’m not asking you to come to my store”. They’re going to come to your store. Care about them and they’ll come to your store. Just care about them. Change your mindset.
N: So, you got a great attitude. So, you might not win that category...
M: I won’t win that.
N: ...because you’ve already been turned around.
M: I’ve turned around a long time ago.
N: So, the best customer service. Somebody who is on this panel who is going to make some kind of decision is going to walk into Maxwell’s House of Music and say, “Okay, customer service in here is pretty awesome”.
M: 100%.
N: You think so?
M: Absolutely, even though it breaks my heart every once in a while when somebody came in and then they set up a review and said, “Nobody took the time to talk to me”. We try to just really… and I think it is sometimes because we’re spending time with people. You know, we’re still spending time and the guy comes in and I said, “Dude, walk around. Look at everything you want. Stick around because I’d love to talk to you” and that kind of thing. Then, they get through and I’m really busy with somebody and my guy is busy with somebody and they hit the door. I’ve literally walked out my door, out to the parking lot, to say, “I’m sorry that I didn’t get a chance to spend time with you. If you come back again, I promise you. My name is Mark. Here is my card. '' I just don’t want anybody…
N: It’s customer service!
M: It is customer service. I just want people to be happy. So, am I going to win? No.
N: I’m going to say you have a good shot.
M: Yeah, I don’t think so.
R: I would vote for you.
M: I appreciate that. Go ahead, next one.
N: So, best store design.
M: Oh, by far, we’re the best.
N: Is there another store in the country that has got a better design that yours?
M: Uh, one…
R: And we’re going to bring that up in depth next... (unintelligible)
M: Last year, we were… you’re going to realize that you are up for each one of these categories. So, we were up for best store design last year and a guy from down in New Mexico won, and he had a really unique store, and I don’t know, but it was a cool store, but it wasn’t as cool as ours. So, I don’t know what happened…
(Nate laughs)
M: No, I’m going to tell you right now. You’ve never seen a store like ours. There is not a rep that comes in that goes, walks in and goes, “I’ve never seen anything like this”.
R: And we’re going to go into depth on that, so don’t give it away.
N: Yeah, don’t give it away. I just want to go through these. Okay, so, best marketing and sales promotions.
M: Horrible at it.
N: Horrible at it? You guys do social media. I’ve seen your YouTube videos. I’ve seen your Instagram.
M: Yeah, yeah, we do some stuff, but I still think it is the one thing we don’t do well, and also, I don’t…
N: I’ve seen some of your yoga stretches for the exercise department, the poses.
M: Well, you know, I can put my legs above my… no, I can’t.
(Nate and Richard laugh)
N: No way.
M: Go ahead.
N: So, you don’t think you’re going to win that?
M: I don’t think we’re going to win that because I think that we try, but I think that we’re so involved with the people in our store that we don’t spend enough time marketing to the people outside of our store.
N: But people should be doing that.
M: I agree, I just don’t have the… and marketing, free marketing, we’re doing okay. In paid marketing, not nearly enough. I’ve got to be honest with you, I don’t think that is… yeah.
N: Okay, so we’ll work on this next year. Alright, well this blows into the next one.
M: Alright, go ahead.
N: Best online engagement. Think you’ll win?
M: No. No. We still don’t have that. That’s our… you’re talking the two weakest points you’ve hit so far. Go to the next one.
N: Okay.
(Nate and Richard laugh)
N: Music makes a difference award.
M: 100%. 100%. There is a kid, came in our store… his arms only grew to here (gestures to arm, right above elbow), two fingers on each hand. We care. That kid can play the crap out of the piano.
N: Really?
R: Wow.
M: Like this (gestures), and he almost has to, it’s like overhand. It’s the strangest thing you’ve ever seen, but this kid, I just go in and say, “Dude, you are my hero. Like, literally my hero. '' I tell his mom and dad all the time, like, “Your son has changed me. To ‘I can’t’ to ‘I can’” and so…
N: Inspirational.
M: Oh my gosh, and again, our education and the things we do in schools in the area… we really try hard. What you got next?
N: You’re not going to win this one. It’s Rookie of the Year. Best emerging dealer. Yeah, we’re not going to do that. Wait, but I’ll say what, there is like 7 categories…
M: No, no, no, no, we’re not going to win, and I don’t even care to win. I care to win in my town.
N: Jennifer does.
(Nate and Mark laugh)
M: Jennifer loves to win. She is so about that. She’s like, “This will really matter to people”. I don’t see it like she sees it. She’s a mom. She was a mom of one of my students and came to me and had a high paying job and said, “I know you can’t pay me anything. I love your store. Let me be here and work as much or as little as I want” and I pay her crap. She made so much money marketing for an eye doctor in our town, but didn’t love what she did. Loved the vibe of our store, and my wife and I and her husband and her get along so well and she was like, “Let me come in and work”, and let me tell you, things have changed drastically since I brought her in. The female side of things in the man world, our man cave world, has changed everything. It was a smart move.
N: Alright, so man, okay, let’s jump into the next thing though.
M: Go ahead.
N: I think it’s all good. If NAMM called me up today and said, “Who would you vote for?” I would say, “Maxwell’s House of Music”. I have to throw it for you.
M: Thanks.
R: I agree with that.
M: I appreciate that.
N: Throw the hat in the ring.
M: I’m not worthy of it, but I’ll take it. Go ahead.
N: But I’ve been to your store, so what I want to do is talk about real quick, you guys rebranded your store. You guys were Mom’s School of Music, and then you went to Maxwell’s House of Music.
M: My mom and dad have Mom’s Music in Louisville, Kentucky. It is a great store, but I figured that…
N: Also a dealer, top 100 dealer.
M: Also a top 100 dealer. Across the river from Jeffersonville, which is where I live. So, how the river splits us, they’re on one side and I’m on the other. Hardly anybody crosses the bridge. It is a weird thing, going back and forth. It is hard to get people to cross the bridge. I don’t know why. So, in southern Indiana, we’re the thing. In Louisville, they’re the thing. We had really hard times in 2008, that whole housing thing.
N: The downturn hurt.
M: Oh, it hurt us so… It was the worst thing that ever happened to us in the music business, for us as a family, was that, but it split us into three groups: my mom and dad on Mom’s Music, I went and started Maxwell’s House of Music, and my brother went and started a company called Systemax Audio Visual. I’m going to tell you, when I get together with my family... my dad’s 73rd birthday was last Monday, we got together. The week before that or so was Father’s Day, when we get together, it is a great time. Our family business really hurt us through 2008 with our relationships with each other and so now, I really enjoy the fact. I stand on my own, mom and dad over there, with my sister involved and her son is involved at Mom’s Music. So, Maxwell’s House of Music came to be several years ago. I rebranded it because I wanted to do a little bit different thing than Mom’s. If you go into Mom’s Music, it is a cool store. It is literally one of the coolest stores.
N: I haven’t been in that one.
M: Oh my gosh. It’s… I only learned to do this because of my mom and dad. The uniqueness that they brought to the store, I kind of just put it times 10 on our store.
N: Oh, yeah.
M: So, it is. Everyone always came into our store and was like, “This is the coolest”, like you know, Mom’s Music, “This is the coolest place I’ve ever been to”. So, when I built this big, gigantic store that I bought for nothing. I got this building for nothing. I just really did my homework and spent a lot of time to plan and make this thing work, but it is a cool store and things have been okay.
R: Yes, Nate, you’re going to talk about, one of the questions you’re going to bring up here in a second is rebranding, but one of the questions that we got from some of our guests sitting in here is rebranding, so I’m going to ask the question and we can just sit on it for a second and we’ll answer that as some of the other ones are, and the topic is rebranding. What is the purpose? And also, when do you know, which I think is a great question, when do you know you need to rebrand?
M: Well, I think my mom and dad… Mom’s Music has got an incredible name in our town, but I figured that my dad would probably want to sell it eventually, the store as a whole, and I thought, “You know something? If he is going to do that, I’m just going to go ahead and do something different”. Now, the best thing about it is that, our last name, our Maxwell name, my dad has always been a drummer in our town. My brother is a drummer in our town. I sing, and we’ve always been a part of bands in our town, so a lot of people in our town know the Maxwell name. So, I thought, “Well, Maxwell’s House of Coffee. Maxwell’s House of Music”. So, we just talked about bunches of names and decided we would just pick one, but then, it was like this whole kind of development. So, it is a house of music. Well, then we built a showroom that was like all of the places you’ve played music. So, it is like a house. You walk in to the front door and it is an outside fire pit vibe with all the acoustic guitars, and this was cheap to do. That is what I am talking about at NAMM tomorrow. The way we did this cost me little money because we bought things that it was like, I bought a little teepee for 200 bucks. I went down and got some free stones from the creek and built a fire pit and put a $69 little flamer thing in the middle of it.
N: That’s right. That is in your acoustics section.
M: Exactly, so it is in the acoustic sections and we went and got some logs that one of our customers cut up and put in there. So, for hardly any money, I took a little corner area and made it feel like you’re kind of sitting outside playing guitar.
N: Yeah.
R: Wow.
M: So, then you walk in the showroom and to the right is the basement because I grew up playing in my basement with the paneling. Boy, you can buy paneling cheap. You know what I’m saying?
(Richard laughs)
R: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
M: We found this old couch to put in there. We put this old console TV. All of it was $5 or $10 a piece. We designed a room that looks like it is 1972 in that room.
N: Right, so real quickly. Real quickly, so a lot of people… I want to kind of preface the whole thing by saying that you guys, you had an older part that you expanded…
M: We did, we expanded.
N: ...and you took that expansions and you turned that into different applications for people to be able to play instruments in like different rooms, different settings.
M: Right, it is almost like it is a little movie set.
N: That’s right, it literally is! You could shoot a scene from a movie there!
M: You could do that and you would think you’re in somebody’s basement, and if you walk back 5 feet, you’d go, “Oh, no, no, no”. Here is the next one, and the next room you walk into, it is just 3 walls, but it is against the wall, the next one is the bedroom. The bedroom has a bed that we bought, and we did buy a new mattress. We didn’t want to get janky on that.
(Nate and Richard laugh)
N: I got this mattress for 5 bucks!
M: Yeah, no. We did get a new mattress.
R: Cover up the pee stains! Throw an old pillow over it!
M: But we have this bed, and you know what the bed does? You go sit on that bed, and you plug into that amplifier, and you’re playing that guitar, and it is just like you are in your bedroom. How many of us spent our all of our lives sitting on the edge of our bed?
N: I’m telling you, this is brilliant. This is brilliant. I remember when you were talking about this whole rebranding and construction and you were like, “Nathan, we are doing something that you’ve never ever seen before” and I’m sitting there going, “What could you possibly be doing that nobody has ever seen before?” and then I showed up and I was like, “Holy crap, nobody has ever done this before”.
M: Let me tell you, your reps and the people that you have at your company, some of them can be your best friend. Steve Howe is one of my reps from Yamaha and walked in and I said, “Hey, we’re going to take this 3,500 square foot room and this is going to be our new showroom”. He just looks at me and goes, “Man, just be super careful” and I go, “What do you mean?”. He goes, “I’ve seen people try to do this and then they try to fill this room. Do you know how much gear it is going to take to fill this room?”. So, I went back and said to our whole team, “Steve is concerned about how much gear we’re going to have to have to fill the room” because really, it was like a warehouse. Huge tall ceiling, so here was this gigantic room and we couldn’t figure out how to fill the room, and we start talking about Maxwell’s House of Music, if this is going to be our, why don’t we just make it a house? Literally make it a house. So, you walk in. Here is the basement feel to your right. The second room you walk into is a bedroom feel. The third room has basses in it. By the way, there is guitars and basses and amps in every room.
N: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hanging on the wall.
M: The next room is the bathroom.
N: The bathroom, which I thought was good. You got a toilet in there.
M: We got a $100 clawfoot old tub, which we fill up with merchandise, right? $100. Inside there, I bought a brand new toilet which we fill with candy, so you can walk in and get a Tootsie Roll out of the…
(Richard laughs)
N: Yeah. Have you had a little kid try to go pee in it or something?
M: I have not had any kids sit on it and try to pee in it, but I have had people say, “Hey, thanks a lot. My kid puts their hand in our toilet now at our house”.
(Nate and Richard laugh)
N: That’s not a Tootsie Roll!
M: You can see a b-line of kids when they walk in the door.
R: If somebody closes the door, you know you got a problem.
(Nate and Richard continue to laugh)
M: Yeah, exactly. So, you can see a b-line of kids when they walk in our front door, and they'll walk, and I know exactly where they’re going. They’re going straight to the toilet. They’re going to get a piece of candy and go to their music lesson. So, this little room looks like a bathroom and so, that was very inexpensive to do, too. Even down to the flooring, like we went and found remnant flooring to put down on the floor. So, that each room, we had green shag carpet in the basement. The next room was, you know. The bathroom had linoleum in it. So, then the next one is like a little home office because lots of people do home recordings,they’ll come record in there. The next room is a garage, and let me tell you this, too…
N: It really has a roll-up door on it.
M: It does, it has an actual garage door on it. I went to the garage company in town that I have, that has done my house and worked on my stuff, and I knew one of the guys and just said, “Hey, you think you could give me a garage door to put in here? I’ll put up a plaque that you guys provided this garage door” and they were like, “Sure”. Literally gave it, came in and installed it, and so, you ask of your community and you say, “Hey, man. I need this. I need a toilet. Do you got something that is broken, not going to work ever for somebody, it is broken in the inside or what? You got one of those?”. “Well, yeah, man”. “You think I could put it in there? I’ll put a little plaque on it, says, “Hey, this is provided by whomever. Plumber’s Supply or whatever”. So, we did that throughout the store, like we just kept asking people, “Hey, do you got this? You got that?” and so, in our garage, so you go to the garage, it is for the drummers. Think about it, people play… when I was a kid, we practiced in the garage. So, we made this little garage, didn’t spend much money. We got some old tires, stacked them up. On one wall is all of the rakes and all of the stuff you’d hang in your garage. My daughter’s old bicycle she had is suspended up on the wall. We have license plates all over that wall. So, it kind of feels like you’re in a garage right? Then, there is gear all around you, so there is drums mixed in with all this crazy kind of… The next room is a church because we do a lot of church business, always have. So, it is just a little facade of a church with a light-up cross on the top of it and you kind of just walk in this little… you know, they’re all 12 by 12, they’re not big rooms. They’re just little views of a different place of real life. The next one is a coffee shop because lots of people… So, I have a little stage built in it with a little PA, a microphone, and you can sit there and… I’ve always wanted to build a store that was, and that is what I did with this store, I knew I couldn’t buy everything because I’m a little dealer and I don’t have much money, but I thought, “I like certain things a lot” so, I kind of wanted to be the Sharper Image. You know when you walk into Sharper Image, there is only like a hundred things in there, but I love this store because they picked the best product, and I feel like that is what I do. I go in and say, “What microphone do I think is going to be great in here and what little PA system, if I was going to be doing this, would I put in this room?” and so, I don’t carry everything. I carry what I think is great. So, that is the second thing I said, “Do you believe in this product?”. I’ll ask each salesman. They’ll say, “Man, this is really cool looking” and I’ll go, “Do you believe in it and you’ll sell this product? I don’t necessarily believe in it, or don’t believe in it, but do you? Then, we’ll buy it and that will be your baby to sell”. So, anyway… a coffee shop in the middle of the room. The entire middle of the room is a living room.
N: Does it have a Keurig in it?
M: It does have a Keurig in it. In the coffee shop, you can walk in and make yourself a cup of coffee.
N: Yeah. That’s glorious.
M: It is a really neat thing. So, that is just our showroom, and honestly…
N: What’s in the back or what is there past the coffee shop? Isn’t there something else or was there…
M: Well, there is a full stage kind of built up, too. So, it kind of looked like it was a rock n roll stage, like if you were going to play on a big stage, that was the big stage. I’ll tell you, my guys came up with this this week, they were like, “Man, we need a kitchen” and I was like, “We need a kitchen!” and I swear to you, two days later somebody came in and had a bunch of stuff that we bought from him and this guy goes, “Hey man, I got this microwave and this toaster. You guys can have that”. So, here we, literally, and we talked about it and a few days later somebody had a white microwave that was still in the box and a white toaster. So, they were like, “Why don’t we take the accessory area because the accessory area has its own little vibe, that’s where the front counter is, why don’t we make this like into a kitchen?”. So, now we’re on the search for things to put so that we actually have a kitchen, even though I don’t know how many people are making… The bathroom was the interesting point because everybody was like, “Oh man, what do you mean we make music in the bathroom” and I’m like, “Dude.”
N: Come on, everybody does it.
M: The first week we had it open, some guy walks in and goes, “Hey man, I love this bathroom thing. I’m going to tell you this. I was sitting on the john. My wife was in the tub and I wrote that second song on that CD I just gave you, and I was like…
(Nate and Richard laugh)
M: ...and I was like, “I’ll never listen to that song ever again like I did before”. So, we’re just trying to be creative on a budget. I’m not really spending any money. I wanted to create a place that you went to and went, “This is cool”.
N: Oh yeah, absolutely.
M: There was a place in our town called Lynn’s Paradise Cafe and it was a little breakfast place that everybody would go to, and it was unique. When you first walked in, it had really crazy things, kind of like a Cracker Barrell, but it was crazy stuff. It was fun little weird things, and you would go in there and then you would walk into the experience of their resurutant. They designed the restaurant really great. I wanted to create that same vibe because everybody loved to go to Lynn’s Paradise Cafe. When they came to Louisville, they go to Lynn’s Paradise Cafe. That is what they would do, and so I wanted to create that same kind of vibe that they walk in the door and do something interesting. I tell people, if you’re a baseball fan, make it a baseball store. I mean, seriously, if you have something that is a passion of yours and you want to design something, do that. How cool would that be? I mean, seriously!
N: Oh, absolutely. That was actually one of my questions was, is kind of bringing it to people listening to this, is…
M: How do they do something great and cool?
N: Yeah, and kind of what was a little bit of your thought process of trying to… what are some things you need to think about?
M: That you need to give people places to sit. This is my big thing.
R: Yes.
M: So, when we talked about doing this store, now I guarantee we have 20% of the gear in our showroom that we would’ve had if we would’ve made it just a showroom. So, we cut down the fact of having to spend that much money to stock the place crazily, right, and being just overbearing with all the gear because we knew we didn’t have the money to do that. Spent a little bit of money making more of an experience to go into, and the number one thing was, how many seats can we make? We have a couch. You can sit on the toilet, if you want to. You can sit on the edge of the bed. You can go sit in the office on the office chairs we made. We have couches in there. I don’t even know how many people… I should try that sometime. How many people can I sit in our store? It is so comfortable that a guy comes in, or a girl comes in, and she sits down on the log bench that is sitting over by the firepit, and she sits on it, and I go, “Hey, try this”. She is sitting there playing that guitar and I’ll wait a few minutes and I’ll go over and pick up another guitar. I could never do that if she is standing in front of me, and I’ve been into music stores where there is two stools in the entire place. So, now, it becomes this thing where they spend a lot of time in our store and they say as long as you keep them in the store and keep product in front of them, they’re going to find something they want.
N: So, sitting people down was a huge thing that you… it was a huge breakthrough.
M: Oh my gosh, breakthrough. Breakthrough.
R: I’m glad we’re talking about this because one of the questions, and I’ll just bring it up and we’ll move on, is how do you keep customers in the store and I think that would probably answer that question.
M: Offer them a bottle of water. I’ve got to figure this out. I buy water, and I buy good water, sorry, and it’s a 20-oz bottle. It was 28 of them in it.
N: Is it a purified water?
M: Well, no, I buy spring water, but I know I don’t know the difference so it doesn’t really matter what it is, but I… look at this. If you bought a case of water, I think I paid $5 for the case of water. It is good water. I don’t know, I feel like it’s good water. You don’t know if it’s good water. It’s water.
N: And now you can have it in the kitchen with the refrigerator.
M: Yes. So, I paid not much money for a bottle of water, just like you do. How many people do that? I mean, literally. Is my customer worth 25 cents?
N: Absolutely.
M: Or 17 cents, or whatever it ends up being. Walk in and there is water in my store, do you want a coffee? Can I get you something? I want you to stay here. I want you to get a piece of candy. I want you to go back for seconds if you want. It is interesting because there is so much kind of space in there where the living room is. We have like a table, and mom’s will bring in food and just kind of open it and sit it there. I mean, I literally… the only problem is that I did gain some weight over the last couple years, and I’m being honest with you. It was only because people would bring in treats because we just kind of get used to this being home. What do you do? You have treats and you have stuff on your counter at your house. So, there is a lot of that going on.
N: I can only imagine when kids are coming over, or students, they want to come and hang out for a bit before or afterwards and so…
M: Absolutely, they do. Oh, yeah. I’ll have parents go, “Hey, I want to ask this before we do so, but we’ve got a thing to do today and he really wants to come over to your store”. We close at 5. Don’t be a minute past 5.
(Nate and Richard laugh)
M: We open at 10. Let him stay all day long. Let him stay. Let him play every guitar I have. A lot of times, I’ll turn to his parents and go, I’ll look at the kid and I’ll go, “Hey, does he know how to tune a guitar?” and I say, “Okay, so you want to stay at my store all day long? You have to tune that wall of guitars” and they’re like, “Really?” like they get to do it. They get to do it.
N: Oh, yeah. Wow.
R: Free labor.
M: It is, it is free labor.
N: I tried, so the one time I came to your store when you guys were doing the grand opening and the rebranding, so I remember, I thought it was a big deal when we were there and you had all this stuff going on, and I forget, I think it was in the second room on the right, so was that the bedroom?
M: Yes.
N: The bedroom. There was a kid in there, and I remember you sat down with that kid, he might have been 6 or 7 years old, and you asked him if he knew how to tune a guitar and he didn’t and you showed him how to start tuning a guitar. Even back then, that was a couple years ago, I thought, “Man, this is an attitude or this is something that you just don’t… the owner of this place is sitting down with a 6 year old kid showing them how to tune a guitar”.
(Mark laughs)
M: How to tune a guitar, yeah.
N: I’m telling you, that is, it is a lost… I don’t want to say it’s a lost art. I don’t want to say that, but…
M: No, it’s not a lost art. I see it at other places, too, and some of those people...
N: You seem to come back to that attitude over and over and over again.
M: Well, it works for me. I don’t know if it works for you. You may be all about the gear and places like Sweetwater is all about the gear. Now, let me tell you, though, their customer service… they’ll call you on the phone. Hey, how is that piece working out? How is that piece working out? You don’t even know who I am and you’re calling me on the phone asking how this piece is working out. That is good customer service. So, some people do it really well.
N: Sometimes I think that they get lonely and just want to talk to somebody.
(Nate laughs)
M: It is possible they do get lonely.
R: That is why earlier he was talking about randomly calling customers. He’s just lonely.
(Nate continues to laugh)
M: Hey, if there is nothing going on… if you’re laning, you’re cleaning. Right? You’re sitting there BSing. Hey, something needs to be cleaned here or you are on the phone, and I’d much rather have somebody on the phone, calling somebody and saying, “Hey, how is that guitar working out for you?”.
N: Yeah, and actually, I’ve heard of that a lot of times. People go, “Man, things are so slow. What do we do?” and I know a lot of times people gravitate to that old approach of “Crap, maybe I need to get some of my old customers on the phone and see how they’re doing” and it is almost kind of like… why is that always a last ditch effort to try to do something?
M: It is, and so, that has to be… you’ve got to flip all this around. You’ve got to flip it around and say, “Alright, so, what are we going to do for our customer? What could we do? Let’s think outside of the box on this”. I’m going to tell you this, last Saturday, my mom and dad at Mom’s Music in Louisville, did a drummer’s breakfast.
N: What?
R: Man, I love them...
M: Wait a minute, they...
N: A drummer’s breakfast?
M: Yes.
R: I want to be invited.
M: So, let me tell you this. So, they invited everybody on every social media they could and said, “Hey, we’re having a drummer’s breakfast”. They got on the phone. They called every drummer they knew. People we hadn’t seen in years were at the drummer’s breakfast. It was such a community of.... this is awesome. You’re not asking them to buy stuff. I mean, I get it. Maybe I’m wrong about this, but… you got them there and you pray that they’re going to because it keeps your doors open, or they’re going to take lessons with you, but there is something to say just about being appreciative that we are musicians and that we like playing music and so that drummer’s breakfast was a huge deal, and if you don’t think that every one of them didn’t share it on their social media, they did. They were all taking pictures of everybody, “Hey, I haven’t seen you in forever!”. They’re talking about little gigs and all the things that happened and there were kids there. There were adults there. There was a 90 year old drummer who started the whole thing in our town. 90 years old. His name is Johnny Roy. He taught my dad to play. He taught my brother to play, and Johnny Roy was in our store and every musician, you know, he’s the… my dad is the godfather. This guy is the godfather of godfathers. So, you realize who is important in your community and who has been there and who is doing it and show them a little appreciation. I guarantee it will change everything. You’re getting to the point where people matter. Look, Nate, you treat me really good. You will call me and say some crazy crap on the phone or you’ll text me something.
(Nate and Richard laugh)
M: Now, here is the thing. I know that you want me to buy guitars from you, right? It is your livelihood. You’re married. You’ve got kids. You like to go to Florida.
N: I do.
M: And I know that about you. So, even sometimes when I don’t need something, I’ll go, “Hey, I think I’ll take a couple of these or a few of these” because I know it is going to help you, and at the end of the day, I think if you’ve been so good to me as a person like this, and we gravitate towards people that we like. Dave Clo, you know, it is a weird thing that Dave Clo, who makes some of the coolest educational products out there. I sell his… I don’t let a person walk out the door practically without one of his or at least show them and say, “If you learn these 14 chords, you’ll play 99% of every song you’ve ever heard”.
N: Absolutely.
M: Side one of his chart alone, if you learn that, you could play music the rest of your life and so, his educational material… but that is not what happened with him. He and I met each other and it was over Spinal Tap.
N: Yeah, it was a Spinal Tap concert in LA, right?
(Richard laughs)
M: We went some place. We were at a party at one of the things and we just kind of started talking, and I said, “Well, I have got to go. I’m going to go see Spinal Tap” and he’s like, “Spinal Tap?”. They’ve played 2 times in their life, right, and I saw them both times. I said, “Yeah, you want to go? I got an extra ticket. '' Instant friends, you know, but then I find out how great Dave Clo is about what he is doing, how much he cares about people and cares about what he does, how he wants people to learn to play the stuff. So, I… he is my guy. You’re my guy. This company becomes my people and I wish I could give you even more money just so you could go on another vacation.
N: Man, that would be great.
R: He can, we got credit card machines up front.
(Mark laughs)
N: And I’ll say, there has been times, too, before where Mike is like, “We actually don’t really need anything right now, but we’re going to buy stuff from you because we love you”.
M: Yeah, I know.
N: They’re said you’ve been brutally honest.
M: Let me tell you this and we’ll try to look through the cracks of what we could get that would be good.
N: So, if I could get all of my clients to the point where they just buy stuff because they love me.
R: Alright, well, you guys are making me tear up.
(Nate laughs)
M: I don’t know about that.
R: Well, let’s do a power around and what I mean by that is I’m going to ask questions, and just quick responses. These are from, again, the people that we have in here and there are some great questions. How big or important is your lesson program?
M: Big and very important. 350, 400 people probably. I have one guy that is taking it on as his kind of, he’s an education director kind of guy. Yeah, it is important. I just think, here is the thing. It is just like this: if you educate people, they’ll stay with you forever.
N: Yeah, absolutely.
M: They just really will. They’ll care. They’ll stay with you forever, especially if you care about them. The fact is if you can educate them, they’ll stay and I think that selling… we’re not into that. We’re just not into selling. We want you to have the experience of lessons and understanding how to be better at what you’re doing. I’ll even go to pros and say, “You take lessons?” and they’re like, “What are you talking about?”. “Do you take lessons? Do you take guitar lessons anymore? Are you doing that?”. “I haven’t done that since I was a kid”. I go, “Why not? I mean, do you want to be even better than you are?”. I have a guy who teaches classical guitar who can take you on another, you know… and so, I’m trying to even put that in the minds of people who think they’re already too good to be doing that stuff.
N: Absolutely.
M: Go ahead.
R: What percentage of your store is used/refurbished versus new?
M: 50/50.
R: Interesting.
M: I am 50% MIRC and used, and 50% new. I started off as nothing but MIRC, so when I restarted the store, I literally started from scratch. I had a set of strings on the wall because when I bought the store I only bought the fixtures of the store. I had no gear in my store. I had the lesson program going on and then Mom’s Music took all of the gear. So, I literally had a set of strings on the wall. So, we started from there and then I made a deal with you guys that I wanted to have… here was the key. I wanted to have lots of brands on the wall and I started off calling them “Better than New” used instruments, right?
(Nate laughs)
N: That’s great.
M: “Better than New” used instruments meant that, well, I can’t sell this new, right, because it is not a new product. It is a refurbished unit, but to me, what you guys do to them and by the time I get it, these things play great. I don’t have to think about resetting the thing up and I have to do that on most manufacturers. So, they come in. They play great. They work great. I stick it on the wall. That is a pretty big deal. Plus, it gave me a lot of brand names. So, using MIRC, another commercial for you guys, and the fact is that it made me look like I was somebody when I wasn’t anybody, meaning that you walked in and you saw there was a Guild. There was some kind of Fender or Squier piece.
N: Alberez and Ivarez.
M: Epiphone and Alberez. I just… there were all these brand names that I had on the wall. So, it really was wow, you know. As we built, it took us time. We had to really kind of build it up and then I kind of did a big buy in, a little bit more, when we did the hard opening of the Maxwell’s House of Music. So, I am 50/50 still to this day. I think it is really important. I kind of have 3-tiers and I have 3 tags in my store. So, you can find a yellow tag, it is used. If it is a red tag, it is an MIRC piece. If it is a blue tag, it is a new piece. So that is how you can go through our store and go, “Hey, I know the difference” and we’re getting ready to do a purple tag, too, that is going to be consignment because we’re doing a few consignments here and there. So, we’ll have another tag and it will be… and my guy will know that they really can’t do anything on the price or help out in any other way because that is a consignment. It is what it is. Go ahead.
R: I like your tag system.
M: The tag system has been really good, and you walk in and there is a chart that shows the yellow tag, and it shows the red tag, and it says the blue tag and it says exactly what it is. It even tells the warranty information on each one. 30 days warranty here, 1 year warranty because we do that with MIRC products. We hold the warranty.
N: We have several people that do that. That is excellent.
M: Then, we have the blue tag which is our new product and that says, you know, whatever the manufacturer's warranty is on it. Then, with the purple tag we won’t be able to do that. It is just a consignment and there is no warranty. So, I like that.
R: Do you sell online?
M: Ah, I probably ought to. I don’t.
R: Okay.
M: You know, here is the thing. I’m not very good at this business thing. I’m just being honest with you. I wish that somebody would come over to my store and knew what they were doing. Man, it’d be amazing.
R: Yeah.
(Richard and Nate laugh)
M: It would be!
N: This is a “want” ad placement right here.
M: Yeah, it is a “want” ad. If you really know how to make an online thing work, just come around my store. You can have it, just let me make sure that I get a paycheck every month or week or whatever.
N: Well, it has to be profitable.
M: Well, I think it has got to survive. No, I wish we were doing online stuff, but I have got to be honest with you, I’m not.
R: Not yet.
M: No, and you can say not yet. I have no plans for it, and I know it is a dumbass move, but to be honest with you…
N: But you’re in a unique position, though, that you do your… you’ve had so much success doing all the things we just got done talking about.
M: Yes!
N: You’ve never been necessarily forced into a situation. Would it be wise to do it? Sure, but...
M: Sure, it would be. I could sell a whole lot more product. It is the truth. If you get your online presence together, you can make a lot of money. There is guys in town that are doing really well. It has just never been my thing. I don’t really want to think about that part of it, numbers and… I just don’t want to. I don’t even care. I want people. I like people.
N: That’s right, some people sell online. Some people are voracious songwriters, so, you know.
R: This next question, I’m just going to ask…
(Nate laughs)
M: I’m just going to go. This is now down to two people, Richard.
R: You’re not going to answer it because…
M: Two people. Go ahead.
(Nate continues to laugh)
R: Just because you’re not going to be able to answer this.
M: I can answer.
R: How do you recommend retail stores use online to increase retail foot traffic?
M: Uhh....
R: Maybe he is going to answer.
M: I’m going to answer this. I know how to do it. I just don’t want to do it.
R: Okay.
M: So, I know how to do it.
R: Fair enough.
M: Be crazy. Make people want to watch your social media stuff. If I was going to...
N: Which you guys do, I’ve seen a lot of your videos.
M: Listen, I study… listen, I am in a very… I’m in a pretty popular band in Louisville, right? Our social media is really good. So, I know how to do it and I’ve even hired people in the spots to do so. I just don’t take part of it. It is not in me. So, you’re asking the wrong guy, but I know how it works, because I’ve studied a lot. Matter of fact, there is a podcast that I did last week, or two weeks ago, in Nashville that I think is really good that if you’re a musician. It is called “The C.l.i.m.b” and it’s C dot, L dot, I dot, M dot, B. It is an acronym for something, but this podcast is about musicians being better at doing their social media.
N: Oh, okay.
R: Interesting.
M: It is really an interesting podcast.
N: It really has become a key in all of that. It needs to be a part of infrastructure.
M: It does, and so, I think… I don’t know what happens. There is sometimes that people go, “You see what they did on your Facebook?”. I don’t have Facebook. I am an old guy. I just don’t do any of that stuff, but I definitely pull in people around me who do, so those guys do it. So, when they’re filming something stupid and I walk by and go…
N: Yeah, man, some are pretty creative, though.
M: They are pretty creative. I’ll go, “What in the world is going on?”.
N: Actually, yeah. One time Mike goes, “Yeah, Mark just yelled at us for doing that” and I said, “I thought it was a really good video!”.
(Nate and Richard laugh)
M: I just didn’t understand it, and so when you don’t understand something…
R: You felt like your dad for a minute.
M: Oh, no, no, no! I do feel like my dad all the time. I really do. I really am the old guy of our store, so everybody else is younger than me. I just let them do what they want. I just say, “Listen, keep it PG. Don’t ever go crazier than that, but you can do anything you want to do. If you think people are going to watch this…” and I always tell them, I always make it about… I’ll say, “Hey, I got this new piece, or this new piece, or this piece”. I do try to say, “Hey, just make it fun. Make it fun so they know that you’re a really great human being and they want to hang out with you”. So, that is what I would do.
R: Awesome.
N: What was the video about that had like the M16 guns? What company is that?
M: I don’t know.
N: They were guitars shaped like guns and so they did this whole video where they were jumping out of the bushes, like shooting at each other with these guitars shaped like guns.
R: Really?
N: I was like, “Oh, that was creative!”
M: Here is what I’ll do at NAMM tomorrow…
N: With all the music in the background.
M: Tomorrow at NAMM, here is what I’ll do. I walk through NAMM in Nashville and I could do the same thing in California. I go to the least of these, I call it, booths. The booths that you know these guys are trying something new and crazy. So, I’ll go to that booth and I’ll look at their product and I’ll go, “Ain’t nobody ever going to buy this. I got to buy one.”
N: Yeah, because I’ll say, “Who bought this machine gun? Good choice.”
(Nate laughs)
M: I’ll buy it and put it in the store. There are things in my store that are 10 years old, 20 years old…
(Mark laughs)
R: That is why Mark doesn’t buy 100% MIRC. Yeah, 50% of it is machine guns in the store!
(Nate continues to laugh)
M: Here is the thing, who is going to buy one of those, right? I’m thinking, “Hey, I sold two!”.
N: Did you really?
M: I sold two of those machine gun guitars, and they were cheap guitars, but they were just kind of weird and kind of crazy. I bought a lot of things like that. I always go and find something that I bring in that no one has ever seen before because if I’m standing at the NAMM show and I walk by and go, “Look at that!” then, don’t you think…
R: Somebody else is going to do that.
N: Somebody else is going to do that, too. Yeah.
M: ...they’re going to come in your store and go, “Look at that!”. So, I bought things you would not believe.
N: See, but what I see at the NAMM show usually is like a 9-neck guitar, something like that, that nobody would actually buy except for Steve Myers.
M: I’m not saying that anybody is going to buy it either. Sometimes I buy it just to put it on display.
N: Yeah, to get attention.
M: I do. It is like walking down your hallway. When you something is not for sale, what does everybody want to do? They walk down your hallway here. That hallway gets me everytime. I hate walking that hallway because there are 10 guitars hanging there and I want every one of them, and they are not for sale. Have you realized what you can create by putting “Not for Sale” on something? I mean, literally, the second you say, “That is not for sale”, someone is standing there with their wallet…
R: How much?
M: How much do you got to have?
N: Alright, well, hey. We’re going to start wrapping this up, but let’s close it with this…
R: He’s going to try to sell you guitars down the hall now.
M: That is alright.
N: Yeah, let’s talk in just a couple of minutes. What is, I would say 3 but maybe we need to wrap things up, what is the 1 thing that if you could tell anybody who is either starting a music store or running a music store right now and they came to you for advice, what is the 1 thing you would say that they need to be doing?
M: Don’t do it.
N: The music store?
M: Yeah, don’t do it. Don’t start a music store.
(Richard laughs)
N: Go on vacation?
(Richard continues to laugh)
M: Listen. No, no, no, no, no.
R: Be a doctor.
(Nate laughs)
M: Listen, I would be anything else but run a music store. I’ll tell you right now, if they wanted to run a music store and they really wanted to do it… just love it. That’s it. I think if somebody came to me and said, “I want to do a music store” I’d say, “Can you imagine not… I mean, it is not easy. It is not an easy road, but either you love doing this or do you not love doing this?”. Like my dad said, “If you’re not having a good time, go do something else”. Don’t start something you think is going to be a great thing. You’ve got to have a passion for this. You have to have a passion for people and gear. I love gear. I love guitars.
N: You love the people, too.
M: But I love people, too. So, it is a 50/50 split with me. I love going to the store because there is new gear and great gear, but I love the fact that there is people. So, if you don’t like people, don’t get a music store. Do an online thing. If you love gear, just do an online thing, but if you love people… that is my problem. I am 90% people and 10% selling gear sometimes. My guys have to remind me that, “Hey, this is about selling a piece of gear Mark” and I’m like, “Oh, yeah”. I just figured they’ll do it anyway and they do. I’ve survived. I’ve survived through the worst. I think it is only going to get better from here. I do believe that music stores are on the rise and I’m going to tell you right now, especially if you care, so I believe, and my mom and dad, we talked about this 2 weeks ago, we believe it is only going to get better.
N: Yeah, absolutely.
M: So, if we go with that mindset, we’re going to win. In my opinion, we’ve already one.
N: The positivity this year is that you can feel it. Richard came back from NAMM, the winter NAMM, and said, “My gosh, it is a big turnaround. People are excited”.
M: Let me tell you this. What is the difference? It is this.
(Mark points to his head)
M: It is this. Man, you can change your mind anytime you want. I’m going to be positive from this day out. For the rest of the day, I’m not going to be negative in any way, shape, or form. I don’t need positives. Everybody comes in and I don’t care what happens. Somebody craps on my floor, I’m going to be positive.
R: Or in the toilet.
(Mark laughs)
M: Or in the toilet in my store, on top of the candy. I would have to get rid of that entire thing.
N: I watched a kid pee in a toilet at Home Depot one time. That was funny. Somebody was running over there, trying to get the kid to stop. He was committed. He was already committed, so…
(Richard laughs)
R: I would’ve laughed. That would’ve been awesome. I would’ve high fived him.
(Nate laughs)
N: Anyway, that is kind of funny, but hey man, we appreciate this. We could talk for another hour, but I realize you got to...
R: We’ve got a million more questions, so we’ll have to do this again in several months.
M: Maybe in another year or two, you know, maybe I come back and tell you what it is all…
R: I was thinking close towards Christmas or something, but a year or two. I thought he liked us a little more than that.
M: I hate this stuff, but I love MIRC. Not you guys, but MIRC.
(Nate laughs)
R: We understand.
M: I’m just going to say it for the last time.
N: Alright, well, hey.
R: I learned a lot. I think you have a wealth of knowledge and I appreciate learning from you, so, again we have a lot we can ask. I want to do it again, so maybe you’ll want to do it again and if so, we can ask a ton more questions because I think you can teach and help a lot of dealers. That is important to us.
M: Yeah, educate. Educate yourself. It is the only thing you can do. This podcast is really… I mean, it is unique. When I heard you were going to do this and then I listened and I thought, “What? Why hasn’t this been done?”.
N: Yeah, we asked the same question.
R: More importantly, we have a gift for you, so here.
(Richard hands Mark a TMRS t-shirt)
N: Yay! If anybody wants to check out your place, they go to maxwellshouseofmusic.com, right?
(Mark laughs and holds up the shirt)
M: You had your own t-shirts made?
R: Heck yeah!
N: Heck yeah!
R: The Music Retail Show. They’re comfy.
M: They feel really good.
R: Yes, they’re good shirts. We appreciate you Mark.
N: Hey, yeah… maxwellshouseofmusic.com, people can kind of check out what you guys do.
M: Yeah, I don’t even know. I’ve never been on it, so I don’t really know.
(Nate and Richard laugh)
N: Why are we not surprised?
M: Don’t be surprised of that. There is somebody else that needs to care about that. All I care about is the person that walks in my door or calls me on the phone, and the person on the phone, I’m going to say, “Hey, why don’t you come down and let’s talk” because I like to sit with you, in the multiple amount of chairs that I have, and we need to have a conversation about what is it you want. End of the day, what do you want? How can I get you there?
R: That’s good.
N: Appreciate it, man.
M: Oh, yeah. Thank you.